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ariana_youthworkers@xtra.co.nz
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2007 12:27
Reply
John could you fill us in more on the collaboration between Youth Work training providers in the UK?
Through your eyes, how can this be implemented in Aotearoa?
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Mark Farrar
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2007 20:34
Reply
Bitter or lager?
Detached or centre based?
Eastenders or Coronation Street?
Tom or Fiona?
Chelsea or Arsenal?
Gordon Brown or Tony Blair?
Youthbank or Keyfund?
City or United?
Youth Worker or Connexions P.A?
Hope you are having a good time John!
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Kirsty Pillay
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2007 10:04
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Ditto on Mark's great list :0)
I like your list of inspired thoughts John, and totally support the need for any quals etc here to be attainable for current youth workers.
Purchasing of youth work resources sounds good and would be of value to our programme staff
Setting up a representative group of the sector to accredit all Youth qualifications in NZ is worthwhile and important - both to oversee what is available, standards and criteria etc - and also to ensure that the info about training and quals and other opportunties is distributed throughout diverse youth sector networks. E.g. some of our staff in more rural or smaller communities say it often feels really hard to keep up to date with the opportunties available
Also interested to hear from your travels John about how larger youth organisations provide ongoing training and professional development for their staff (and what youth workers are finding works well/is most useful to them and applicable to their work)
Have great travels!
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Andy Woodhouse
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2007 10:13
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Hi John, have a good time out at Brunel and if you meet my old Tutor, Simon Bradford, say "hi".
As a youthworker who qualified at Post-Grad level in the UK and now NZ based I would say that I hope we don't "learn" too much about how to do youthwork from the Poms......the Connexions model sucks and the way it was all put together (men in suits on huge salaries telling front-line workers how to do their jobs) was hugely flawed and created a lot of bad feeling.
I feel it is essentail to develop our own models to ensure what we do is relevant not only to the young people of Aotearoa but that it makes sense to the front-line workers.
Also, accountability and monitoring is essential, it is possible in the UK who produce no tangible outputs whatsoever, yet get paid good salaries, and usually manage to slip through any supervisory net.....in all our future development here in NZ we absolutely must ensure that youthworkers are expected to have their work evaluated....I haven't seen too many issues over here and as has been said before, the Uk's academic approach to youthwork breeds career-path workers who are focussed on the next promotion or salary bracket, we need to look at what works here and preserve it, and not adopt other people's practices just because they say its good or it works.
Sorry to sound like a cynic but I work in Aotearoa for a reason.....things get done!!
Can't be doing with people coming here from overseas and flogging us their tired old methodologies...something I have been a great pains not to do since I got here.
Have fun and stay away from that warm beer mate!
Andy
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Rod Baxter
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2007 12:47
Reply
I like Mark's list! Beer!
I wonder two things...
1) does the UK have an ITO structure like we do?
2) do universities have any influence on the shape of youth work practice?
Baxter
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Andy Woodhouse
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2007 14:07
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As far as i can recall from 5 years ago, there are not ITO's for youthwork per se but plenty of "Service Providers" which amount to basically the same thing just that they tend to be freelance outfits.
Uni's have a huge influence on youthwork practice, UK youthwork is very political and influencing youthwork practice is high on the agenda of many trainers.
Some of the really good tutors explore a broad range of practice and encourage a mindset that keeps one open to new ideas but there is an army of socio-political manipulators out there who seem to want to perpetrate their own agendas, this is especially prevalent where "Equalities Training" is delivered or anything around gender issues and identity.
Many youthworkers I worked with felt degraded and insulted by some of the training they undertook.
I left the UK feeling that adherence to extreme Political Correctness had overtaken delivering outcomes for young people in the grand scheme of industry priorities.
Connexions tried to redress that balance but the training was too theoretical.
Do not underestimate the power of training, it can inspire or de-motivate at will.
Having said that, I had mostly positive experiences at Brunel Uni and two of the tutors there were key to keeping me in youthwork...a couple of others had me wanting to pack it all in and go back to being a mechanic as they came across like a white, straight, male had no place in the industry and this was an attitude I experienced time and time again during training (I did courses other than Uni).
This is why you'll find me always ready to resist influences from the Uk in youthwork practice here, we know our young people and our culture better than anyone and I have spent over 4 years removing those influences from the Duke of Edinburgh's Award in NZ, to make it work specifically for Kiwis.
That's all I'll say on this forum, anyone can feel free to contact me and I can talk further on the subject.
XX
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John Harrington
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2007 05:53
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Hi Andy, Good to hear from you mate. Your name did come up over here when I met with Yvonne McNamara from Brunel. She passes on her good wishes to you and spoke very highly of you. Yes I have picked up the strong politics over here esp in England and don't worry I'm not coming back to NZ saying we should do everything the Uk is doing as the way we do youth work here is unique and needs to stay that way. There are some things I have picked up that will add value to our youth work practice in NZ. One is that youth work works when care and cure work together. I think maybe over here the emphasis has swung too much towards cure. Any youth work training that is established in NZ needs to recognise that one of the core values is caring, and caring leads to cure. You can't have one without the other. I had a good discussion with Lloyd Martin about this in Leicester.
I have really enjoyed my time in Scotland as I think the way they do youth work is in a similar context to the way we do it. Youth links is a really good organisation. I could actually see myself working there. They have similar goals to our organisation and the only difference is that they are really well resourced.
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John Harrington
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2007 05:59
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Well put together Mark. I know that it is now Fiona not Tom!!! Tom is on his bike! Connexions is a dirty word over here in youth work. That is from the people I have spoken to. I am having a great time and have learnt heaps. I am especially enjoying scotland as I think it is a lot more closer to youth work in NZ and same sized population as ours. Youth work is not so political here.
John
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John Harrington
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2007 06:04
Reply
Good Questions Rod;
Universities try to have an influence on youth work practice. I know it is one of Howard Sercombe's intentions at Strathclyde to lead the way in their degree programme. And the universities I have met have each had their own sort of slant on youth work often depending on the geographical area of where they are - ie goldsmiths is in newcross london, which is a black majority community. So their courses reflect their cultural diversity.
I am not sure about the ITO. No one has mentioned ITO's.
Hope Outward bound is cool to you!!! Vicki said cruel - its just that John boy here doesnt dictate properly!!!!!!
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John Harrington
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2007 06:13
Reply
HI Kirsty, Thanks for your comments.
Re: Accrediting quals: The accrediting body needs to have strong representation from the sector and must include the voluntary sector of youth work. Accreditation is not just about degree programmes in Universities, but all levels of youth work qualifications.
Re: Larger Orgs and how they do their training:
In England, my prospective is that employers send their workers to do part time degree courses and they also do run their in house training programmes. The National Council of Voluntary Youth Services here deliver training to the voluntary sector as do the NYA and the Union. Youth work is very structured here, esp if you are a professional practitioner - ie a youth worker who works for a local authority. In England they are pushing for a degree as the minimum qual required for a professional practitioner. The Union are also pushing for youth work to be licenced.
I think this is pretty top down as there hasn't been consultation with the sector regarding this and I wonder whether all that is going to happen is that there will be a whole lot of academic youth workers working for local authorities.
Lots to report back on on my return.
Cheers John
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John Harrington
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2007 06:16
Reply
Kia Ora Ari,
Once a year in England the training providers all come together so they share notes. The other collaboration is that their courses are accredited by the ETS. They are universities so they do compete against each other as they have to survive and are dollar driven.
Cheers John
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Member
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